Fun topic. Can’t wait for the pipes next year and the sprint for space.
:cheers
I believe you’ve touched on the crux of how reality plays out EXTREMELY well helixer … your tweak (of restricting to smaller sizes up front) is an excellent one which could be enforced relatively easily.
PB take note of helixer’s suggestion when you ponder what to do about the recent congestion of tarps which now back up into the food lines.
YUP, highlighting a really good point, there is not much space back by the picnic benches and grass by food vendors; before Kelty Land there was ample space there. Perhaps there are many more larger tarps creeping out on the field. There certainly are groups setting up shade houses and tarps, doubling up on real estate. (I still see no benefit to enforcing not sleeping in line, but I like sleep, understood: town ordinance.) I think the festival experience would be a bit richer for the performers where there more little tarps up front. We would still be welcome to share space when vacant . . . I think there would be more interaction between festivarians and perhaps the sharing of more kind acts. WIN - WIN !
So what’s your enforcement plan for oversized tarps?
What about those"over-sized" tarps that have only one tarp runner but 20 people who sit on them all day? (That does happen, you know - I realize most people only notice the empty tarps because you can’t really tell a tarp is over-sized when it’s fully occupied).
I understand the spirit of your initiative but all you’re doing is creating new rules and enforcement that are going to upset even more people (I feel) than the current status quo.
- spray paint zones
- post signs at entrance about rule adjustment
- have PB volunteer go up and down the tarp line explaining about new rules & zero tolerance
- have a few PB volunteers stationed in the field to act as monitors/refs
- even have a que for festivarians (taking their chances) to wait to be signaled by refs to move in on over-claimed space.
- if there are any arguments with PB volunteers: one warning, then immediate cutting of wristband (policy to be noticed well in advance)
As to the over-sized tarps with only one runner and 20 people who sit on the tarp all day: while this might seem like a situation which has ‘worked out’ (and it has, for those 20 people), but when you stop and think about it there could easily have been two or three other “crews” behind them (who put in the time in line) which could’ve improved their situation & of course the crews behind them all would move up a slot or two. Or, even taken to the extreme, there could’ve been 19 others WAITING IN LINE with just lowback chairs (without tarps) who could’ve occupied that space which is being “reserved” for the 19 who got to sleep in.
As far as upsetting people, it’s certainly not something I’d like to see happen … but I’ve got to be up front, the TBF is probably (inadvertently) allows one of THE most stacked decks (which I’ve come across) in terms of those who’ve been here the longest being able to improve their odds at controlling real estate in what is supposed to be a GA situation. Not saying that “seasoned festivarians” cheat or anything, but they’re acutely aware of all the detailed nuances of how to “improve” their situations. Not saying that any these details are secrets … everyone has an equal opportunity to “work the system”, but I do believe the longer you’ve been attending the better your chances of claiming better space will be.
I do believe PB has done a good job at establishing a general framework which works reasonably well on the whole … so I wouldn’t necessarily support upending the system entirely. However, I do see this suggestion as being a positive thing on the whole in terms of equitability for more people who are willing to put in the time.
So, in effect, you are creating a pseudo police zone/state, complete with new lines and such. I’m sorry, man, but I completely disagree with this idea.
The beauty of Telluride is that historically similarly minded people have attended this festival and police themselves with our own set of unwritten rules or written ones (allow people to share your empty portions of your tarp). Yes, a few bad apples and bad behaviors exist but hopefully they will be self-corrected as the offenders see how other festivarians act and get a sense for how the true festivarian spirit works.
Your system will help tarnish the current festivarian system of sharing and giving by instituting a “this is my tarp” system created by having officials say who’s next, etc. You really want people watching you because of tarp size? You really want Orwell over your shoulder? People come to Telluride to be free of the restrictions of other festivals, and to date, the current system has worked. Don’t mess with it!
I have to agree with Billy. Planet Bluegrass does a great job of gently keeping things in line (some pun intended) and allowing us to police the sitautions on our own. We really have earned that right over the years, and the bad apples seem to be gone quickly. I have never been concerned about where my “spot” on the meadow is, the sound is always awesome no matter where you are…even in camp for that matter. I have had the opportunity to spend time on many a tarp and never felt anything but welcomed. So leave things alone and all will be fine! :cheers Heres to ya!
You can change the rules, create more rules, add enforcement of the rules, and deal with all the associated fallout of that move (increased hostility, bad feelings, frequency of pulling wristbands, etc), or you can work on changing the culture.
There’s nothing wrong with how it works today, except that: 1) some people don’t feel comfortable using any unoccupied tarp, and some people are too hostile towards those trying to share the space.
So wouldn’t it be better it we all worked on that instead? When you’re sitting on your tarp, with a ton of space, and see a couple of people walking around carrying backpacks, looking for space, wave them over to your spot. Encourage it, make new friends, take risks. If you’re looking for space, don’t just plop down, but walk up and ask if that space is free for the moment, shake hands, introduce yourself, and make friends.
And FOM, those roles you’re assiging to “volunteers” will never go to volunteers. While it’s supposed to be all in fun, I don’t think PB is going to start sticking people in harm’s way that aren’t full employees covered by all the appropriate insurance. Especially after last year’s events at customs.
But in any case, if that’s the environment we’re going to move towards, I can stop trying to find tickets for the family…we have enough rules already.
It is so true, that we must teach. Just share and respect eachothers space, reach out and be kind and curtious. tolerance is key.
PBG does it all good just the way it is. Thats why I have been to more then I can count.
BUT, I love all of your minds workin together for a greater solution :medal
I liked my zone idea. Folks need direction at times, not rules. :flower
Wow! There is a “volunteer” job that’ll surely be popular. :rolleyes Just imagine the brawls when a wristband gets cut, and the second chance cue line gets the green light. PB could probably set up bleachers and sell tickets just to watch the MMA/TBF-TarpRun Edition. :eek “FestiRefs” running with scissors?..no thanks! Leave it alone please. I’m with Mr.Beru. It works enough now. :cheers
(is “zero” tolerance in my Festihandbook?)
OK, so enforcement may not be so easy, an excellent case has been made for that.
But back to Helixer’s point though- as a community, should there be some tarp size beyond which the community says, “whoa, that’s just freakin’ too big” or do the physical laws relating to tarpology naturally limit what can be done?
Helixer and FOM- would limiting size really accomplish anything? Most large tarps usually have at least two people, one to run the tarp, one (or more even) to help spread it out. Each person has a number and a spot in line. If tarp size were limited to say 8X10’, wouldn’t you just have 2 (or more) people in line with 8X10’s instead of one person with a 16X10’ and a helper? I’m honestly not sure it would make much difference.
Just asking…I got no dog in the fight- I actually favor a lottery on the camps side (town side- I have no idea), but that’s because I don’t care enough to lose time, sleep, etc. and spend so much time in line for a spot on the field. Time (and sleep) at TBF are too precious to me. That said, I can see the point of view that keeps the current system in place. :cheers
OK, lets get funky with it. Put some fun in this, we all can make a huge change in tarpology. Nothins fair in life, don’t expect it to be.
Sometimes the solution is none at all. Things have a way of filtering out. People in the front are now in the back or to the side, with a tarp or no tarp at all :flower
Ambassador to the good vibe shall be me, floating from empty tarp, to empty tarp, to set am example, to show it is safe and fun. I might have to lose the TERMINATOR SQUIRT GUN however. bummer. :lol
No show down at the hoe down :rolleyes
“Don’t worry, be happy…” 
Don’t mess with the Tarp Run! It’s a tradition unlike any other.
I don’t chime in much on here… but I think the idea of empty tarps is greatly overblown to begin with. Yeah, there’s a few here and there, but I just don’t see this being the issue it’s being made into. Besides that, the whole entire festival population is really just a movin/groovin mass of humanity for most of the day anyway.
And to the point of inviting folks to join you and/or tarp squatting… we have at least two members of our group who were specifically met in this way. And now they come back every year, camp with us, cook with us, get invited to our weddings, etc. A lot of people talk on this forum on a regular basis about how much they appreciate PB challenging their musical comfort zones. I’d say this is just one more opportunity to get out of your comfort zone and learn a little bit about all these great people and maybe even yourself.
BB: you asked (how it would be enforced), so I simply gave a top of my head response on one possible way it could be enforced. I’m simply in favor of limiting tarp sizes in general and thought helixer’s idea had some merrit … not necessarily the possible police state which it might entail … although not quite sure this would come to be. I’ve yet to see anyone walking around with a basketball testing out people’s chair heights.
I agree with you about preserving the festivarian spirit over authoritarian rule, but lets’ face it … there’s a myriad of friendly yet often very intense competitions among festivarians for primo space. I think it’s somewhat of an “euphoric recall” (only remembering the positive elements and discounting the negative) to believe that boundaries aren’t being pushed & real estate isn’t being claimed and watched over.
Ok, then just limit tarp sizes (either across the board or just up front) & “self police” on such rules … maybe that would’ve been a better reply to your original question. As I tried to preface my remarks, I do believe the rules work reasonably well … it’s just that we’ve all observed how the festival is now literally bursting at the seams. And I’ve simultaneously noted huge swaths of open tarp space in primo locations near the SB which would literally not exist at a tarpless GA show.
I guess I do share with you and many others an idealism of sorts about promoting a festivarian spirit … but I’m also a realist and know that not everyone will embrace such notions. So, basically just saying that we do need rules & maybe a slight adjustment might help calibrate space issues a bit.
FOM, it’s hard getting a read on what you’re saying man because one minute you are saying “cut off people’s wristbands” (which prompted my police state comment) and then the other the “festivarian” spirit.
Nothing is going to be perfect but I think the current system is the best one we have. Let it be, let it be.
BB: I admit my original comment wasn’t exactly well thought out as to the particulars of how such a measure could be “enforced” and what it would entail … it was just an attempt to address the details & eventualities. Sorry, didn’t mean to invoke images of tarp nazis with measuring tapes. I guess the whole cutting of wristbands was due to knowing just how entrenched tradition has become & there would probably be a few loose canons who would say “screw it I’m gonna do what I’ve done for the past 30 years”. I personally wouldn’t want to ever have to cut anyone else’s wristband over such an “infraction” … I was just compelled to answer your question regarding enforcement in full … maybe it’s just compulsive behavior on my part to address all loose ends.
I’m hardly looking to spearhead a movement, but if the topic is raised (although I’m not necessarily a fan of the possible motivation of this thread’s) … I’ll still feel the way I do re: making some adjustments.
Can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in singing a bar of “Telluride Tarps” and walking out. And friends they may thinks it’s a movement.
And that’s what it is, the Telluride TarpFest Anti-Enforcement Movement, and all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come’s around on the guitar.
With feeling. So we’ll wait for it to come around on the guitar, here and sing it when it does. Here it comes.
You can lay any tarp you want, and Telluride’s Bluegrass Fest
You can lay any tarp you want, and Telluride’s Bluegrass Fest
Sit right down in some empty space
Meet new friends with a smile on your face
You can lay any tarp you want, and Telluride’s Bluegrass Fest
That was horrible. If you want to festivate and stuff you got to sing loud. I’ve been singing this song now for twenty five minutes. I could sing it for another twenty five minutes. I’m not proud… or tired.
So we’ll wait till it comes around again, and this time with four part harmony and feeling.
We’re just waitin’ for it to come around is what we’re doing.
HAHaaa :medal Next year I’m pushin for a lazyboy, shag rug, walker combo. Screw the tarp thing. Lets think big!