Empty Chairs in Line at TP and Warner

So is there any enforcement of the “No Empty Chairs” and people showing up just before numbers are handed out, the past few years I have watched this behavior increase in number (yea especially you, dude from Santa Barbara, California). I don’t want to be the “jerk” who has to speak up or get in an argument and ruin my vacation, be considerate of those who actually stay in line all night.

I do think that this is a legit concern. It is truly an unfair occurence and not very polite at all. I would like to see a rule enforced that ABSOLUTLY no one is welcome to get in the line until AFTER the conclusion of the last set of music on the mainstage. It is rediculous to me to see people getting in the line at 12PM on Friday for Saturday’s music.

There is my two cents. However, I’m sure the Planet Bluegrass folks will figure it all out just fine. Cheers!

maybe those chairs aren’t empty. maybe the people in them are just in “stealth” mode.

The most amazing thing about T-ride is the respect that the festivarians have toward each other. Everyone helps each other (if you forgot a sleeping bag you could probably score 10 just by asking). And I can’t think of any other venue that scalping is not tolerated at all (I LOVE that!).

So it amazes me that when it comes to getting in line and tarp running, it becomes every man for himself. I have witnessed ENORMOUS tarps being set up, and guys with 2 and 3 different tarps under their arms.

PB can’t police this, nor should they be responsible for making sure that every chair has an occupant. It’s something we should do by ourselves out of respect for our fellow festivarians.

There will always be idiots (like the guys selling numbers) and hopefully someday they will grow up. But if you see someone breaking the rules, OUR rules, you can mention something to them. Maybe they just didn’t get the memo, or are first timers.

This was a problem last year. I noticed the line guy would usually show up just after 5 am so in theory you could get back to your empty chair by then and you would be safe. The rules are plainly posted so we should all adhere to them. My solution is to remove the empty chairs out of line if it is clear no one is in line for an extended period of time. We kicked some chairs out last year and explained to the guys when that got back to line (after line #'s where handed out) that were SOL. So I say we are capable of policing the situation ourselves. Power to the people.

Yea, I just wanted to bring attention to the issue, so we all self regulate.

I see chairs that were set up at noon and no one occupies them till 3 in the morning or 5, just before the numbers are handed out. Usually when leaving to hit the bathroom, the folks around you will make sure you get your number, but I am not willing to get into a confrontation because I moved a guys empty chair 30 or so spots ahead of me that I KNOW was empty for the past 4-6 hours. I will on the other hand move one that is near me.

Happy Festival, I love TBF!

Maybe it could go something like this:

We make up some big cardboard laminate Raspberries with the “rules” of the line on one side and “The Festivarians give you a Raspberry!!!” on the other side.

The “Raspberry” lovingly explains that an empty chair is a felony party foul and that your chair has been respectfully removed from the line, not by one curmudgeon you can start a fight with, but by the the collective energies of Town Park & Werner Field Festivarians.

If there is an empty chair, a Raspberry is placed on the chair. If the person returns within 20-30 min, such as for an extended port-o-potty trip or a Damn! I gotta go get my sleeping bag!!! I’m starting to sober up and realize this hoodie isn’t cutting it, its 30 ^&%(%# degrees out here!!then the Raspberry is removed, no harm/no foul. If, however, the occupant does not return for hours, the Raspberry stays, and…

Wed. night, the Raspberry is left only as a warning. (Planet Bluegrass could help us out by collecting the Raspberries the first morning as they hand out the numbers?)

Thurs., Fri., and Sat. night the Raspberried chairs are moved respectfully out of line. When the person returns, the explanation is sitting on the chair and they understand THEY have made the error, not the person(s) who removed the chair. Once it becomes inevitable that the chairs will be removed, then the behavior will be “extinguished”.


Howdy all

Well, for starters, why shouldn’t PB be expected to enforce the line rules? They do their best to enforce all of the other official rules. For the record, PB operates a fantastic fest and does so very smoothly but the line rules seem to just be ignored. We saw a couple off folks get there passes pulled for repeat offenses of other rules so… seems reasonable to cut someones band for lining up early repeatedly as well. Boot 'em out.

If that seems a little harsh to some folks, hows about this solution. The ‘numbers’ are wrist bands so they can’t be sold or traded and they are handed out at a different locale every night. The location is announced from the stage after the last notes are plucked. This would eliminate the early afternoon line party circling the volleyball courts. Just hand out the first 100 numbers because after that it doesn’t really matter. We regularly just walked from TP about 10 min. till listened to the bagpipes and got in the end of the line and still got our tarp in the sound booth area.

One more question: the line rules seem to be openly ignored by newbies and veterans alike, what gives?
The festivarians at Telluride are generally the nicest 10,000 folks to congregate in the mountains for music. Seems like everybody does there best to follow all the rules but could give two hoots about these rules. Any thoughts?


I motion that we try Hurricane Michele’s idea for 2010. If it doesn’t work out, or turns into something, err… out of control, i.e. ,“you’re not the boss of PB”, then the Festivarian family can turn the matter over to Uncle Ferg and Company.

I would also like someone from Planet Bluegrass to weigh in on this matter? Do we have approval for Raspberries as the most brilliant Hurricane M described above?

Auntie Hope :festivarian2 :green

Its my understanding that its not planet bluegrass’s job to police the lines. It is something that Town Park its self has managed with varying amount of success depending on the year, and the empty chair thing has been a problem for several years. When one person takes the easier solution, then others think, “so why am I sitting out here in the cold all night when this person is sleeping in a warm tent?” and then the problem spreads.

I myself don’t care when the line starts… if you want to miss being inside the festival grounds of an evening for a chance to get a low number for your group, that’s a valid choice. Its a long tradition for many of the larger camps to do this, and a chance to share some fun in the line with old friends. Camp Flamingo has generally not cared that much about being in the very front, and we tend to designate someone to get up early, around 5 am, and get in line, getting a number in the 60s or 70s. There’s no law that you have to stay in line all night if you don’t want to. Some people even stay in line AFTER the #s have been handed out, tho honestly I don’t get that one. Again, tradition.

I’d also like some input from PB when we hash out the rules to put on the raspberries.

My chair’s already in line. Can I have some vodka with my raspberries? :cheers

I think PB should have some musical type people play some music while everyone in line has to do a conga line, and when the music stops they sit in the closest chair, then they get a number. Like musical chairs. And no, I’m not serious. The chair line is part of it, and once the festival is over, does it REALLY matter? Nah. REally not worth letting your blood pressure rise over it. I know I’m not gonna lose any sleep over it, now or then.

The way it is …is the way it is … We are Responsible for Policing our Selves for the most part …
and We dont want to wake up Constable Tim …cause if we do some one is gonna be unhappy !
Chairs in Line …are going in the Dirt !
I dont Do the Line thing for this one reason … you Guys Fight It out !
just Remember …EVERY SPOT IS GOLDEN !!!
Sorry if I have Pissed anyone Off …Newbe’s Get In Line
Town Park has Nuttin to do with with … Its Us and Us alone …
Dustin …Im Sorry …just I would love to see a change …but dont see how we ALL can do it !

thank goodness the town line doesn’t have these issues. no chairs should be left unattended for hours. a person holds their place in line, not their chair. pretty simple.

I witnessed the town line a couple of years ago. Wow. It snaked for BLOCKS! I was on my way to drop a flyline on some unsuspecting trout and exited through the main box office. There was nobody there because the line went out towards the main street. But a block later, it appeared, after winding around that post office block. And it kept going, and going and going… Nearly halfway to my car (at the other end of town) there were people in line with chairs and kids and coolers and smiles. I guess they had no idea how long that line went. THAT is dedication!

Lets take a poll. I love the Raspberry Idea. I believe it will only increase the camaraderie of those who make the effort each and every year to participate in the ritual of the TP, WF tarp run.

How 'bout everyone just enjoy their festival experience and don’t worry about who is cheating, keeping an empty chair in a tarp run line. Do you really want to spend your festival policing? We’re Festivarians, not cops.

That line is stupid anyways.
“You miss out on a lot of fun that’s happening now while you’re waiting in line for the future.” - Capt Telluride

I’ve never done the line thing & I agree with the Capt’n. But, I’ve notice a lot of empty chairs in those lines and I can feel the frustration of you festivarians who get in line & stick with the rules. I love Hurricanes Raspberry idea. :thumbsup

So, are we going to do the Raspberries? Most people agree that an empty chair is just cutting line, a form of cheating, and decidedly UN-Festivarian in spirit. This is just a way to get everyone on the same page.

You abandon your chair, you lose your spot in line. To HOLD your spot in line, you man your chair. Same as anywhere else, getting in line for concert tickets, or getting in line to buy the IPad. Simple. It is what it is. No anger or argument required.

I propose that the line can start anytime, as long as your chair has a body in it. We don’t care if its your body or someone you bribed to sit there. You can take shifts with others in your camp, but NO EMPTY CHAIRS.

A 20 minute break is reasonable. An hour is decidedly unreasonable.

Again, on Wed night, the “Raspberries” will be left only as a warning, since people did it last year and might think its OK this year. Thurs Fri and Sat nights, the chairs will be respectfully moved by whomever is nearby and left with a raspberry on them. We can leave a stack of the Raspberries with the first folks in line each night.

Should I go ahead and make these up? And then later I’ll make up some Mai Tai’s… much more fun.

Hurricane M for President!

About 5 years ago, an intrepid friend came with me to TBF. His first year in Town Park, he took it on himself to get all the empty chairs in the TP line and pile them in the middle of the volleyball court, around 3am. He wasn’t “policing” - he was cracking himself up. And he had the support of the other hard-core line vets. I support this initiative. We can’t expect PB to put a volunteer out there at 3:30 to do this, so we have to police ourselves.

Since I’ll be in line most every night, bring me some raspberries, Michele. Wednesday & Thursday, fair warning. Friday and Saturday, big pile o’ chairs in the middle of the volleyball court!