How would a 5X7 work for a family? I know with my 2 teens- 5X7 and we would be breathing on each other but more importantly what about those families say with 4 little kids?
Three simple steps to fix the tarp and tarp line issues:
-
Mark off the section closest to the stage from the fence to the soundboard (spreading in an arc of the same radius as the soundboard around to the sides) that is for standing and dancing only. No tarps, no chairs, no sitting. This is where people come to dance when their favorite band is playing. I guarantee you the bands would prefer this too…many of the bands in the morning and early afternoon were playing to a field of empty tarps nearest the stage…how much of a letdown is that?
-
Randomize the tarp line numbers and hand them out something like 1 hour before the doors open. This won’t give folks very much time to sell numbers, etc.
-
Enforce a tarp size limit. If this tarp size is too small to accommodate your group and/or your family, send in 2 runners with 2 tarps. The chosen tarp size should be able to fit 4 chairs with a little extra room for everyone’s stuff.
My $0.02 is to just enforce the tarp size limit… If you need a bigger space, you need to have one person in line per extra desired tarp space. It seems to me the problem is that a very large camp just needs one person in line per day, so they don’t have as much skin in the game as, say, a party of two or three.
I personally have no qualm with the large vacant areas, though, as it makes it easier for me to get up close during the sets I want to see, without having to participate in the line madness at all. But I’m usually a party of one.
Again, if they were to randomize the numbers, sending in multiple runners simply wouldn’t work. The music is a huge draw for me, but even better is getting to share the music with so many of my very favorite people. The two runners will not be able to get anywhere near each other if they randomize the numbers.
In a reserved seating situation for almost any concert, try pulling up a pair of tickets vs. 8 tickets (grouped together) from a ticketing system (i.e. Ticketmaster, Frontgate, etc.). My suspicion is that on average, a request for a pair will invariably wind up with better seats vs. larger requests.
Try walking into a popular restaurant with a party of 12 at 7:30pm on a Saturday night without a reservation; my suspicion is that you’ll be waiting longer than a party of 2 or 4, and might be sent to the “back room” which can accommodate larger groups.
Definitely not saying that large groups should be sent to the back of the line @ TBF, but rather that expectations of everyone all being together AND being located up front are rather unrealistic if the playing field were to be leveled (randomization & smaller tarps) and rules enforced more closely.
Nonetheless, two+ tarp runners could preemptively/strategically plan out a spot (maybe in the middle/back) where there’s a high likelihood they could rendezvous and join tarps together. Worst case scenario: you have more than one tarp located in different spots in the venue & members of a large camp get to shuffling the deck a bit over the course of a day.
In reality, maybe a 5x7 isn’t large enough for larger families greater than 4 … perhaps a 6x8 or 8x10 is more realistic for larger groups.
The analogy between TBF and these scenarios is so far off it is laughable.
If you were running the show you would kill off a large reason why so many people year after year return to TBF- to see the myriad of friends they have made there. A big reason for TBF’s popularity is this tradition, of being part of large camps.
There are these claims of conspiracy by large camps. I can only speak for Run a Muck- we have a camp of 25+ and we lay down two 8x10’s. do the math.Not too much land taken for so many people.
Perhaps a more appropriate analogy: when Red Rocks used to allow tarps, on several occasions for sold out General Admission shows, we’d get in line at 7am and end up being first through the gates. We had an enormous tarp, enough for 30+ people. Instead of trying to take up huge amounts of space in the first 3 rows, we would drop back quite a bit, to row ~12 or 15, even though if our crew had been small, like 2 or 4 people, we could’ve been front row.
Similarly, those with gigantic crews at TBF could drop back a ways and put down their tarp so that when their friend arrives with another tarp, it could be placed adjacent to or very near it (as explained by faceonmars). There’s no reason why having a large number of friends should automatically give you an advantage over those going solo or with 2 or 3 others.
I think I just realized that there may be some confusion… I noticed that many of the historical camps are kinda close together… Perhaps, people are confused that this is all “one giant crew” w/ many tarps since we all hug, dance, and move around from tarp to tarp freely…
Billy, welcome back! These examples were never intended to be “strict analogies”, but rather to illustrate issues that arise when you have large groups intermingling with a much greater number of smaller groups in limited capacity situations.
I think it’s great that your “camp” limits the tarp space you throw down to a reasonable area!
I don’t believe it’s an “yes or no” proposition regarding the existence of large camps … I don’t believe this is the issue here. Rather, as FtFunFan has illustrated, it might simply be a matter of making adjustments of one’s expectations regarding location. If there were to be a randomization of numbers, you’d still have a great chance of joining your two tarps.
As it stands, the leverage a large group (and any individual member) has over the system vs. smaller groups for landing primo real estate is highly disproportionate … and is but only one component of how things have gotten out of hand.
Also speaking for Run a Muck, we don’t ever aim for right up front. We are in the low back section, but rarely in front of the sound board.
Nothing wrong with the big camps or large tarps (made some great friends squatting on that space) but there must be some way to eliminate or reduce the gaming and competition that has evolved (again not specifically about big or small camps). My previous post about the shenanigans I have witnessed over the years wasn’t commenting on the 90+% of really good people but at the minority for whom the game seems more important than the vibe, the relationships or the music. How to keep camps together, get everyone some more sleep or jamming time, and get everyone a good spot to see the acts they want to see while eliminating the bad vibe competition is the real goal.
My bigger worry for next year is that the camping lottery will be so competitive and the 4 day passes will sell out so quickly due to both interest and scalpers that some long time festivarians will be shut out.
This was my first TBF and I plan on coming back every year hopefully, even all the way from Ohio. I thought it was completely ridiculous that people would miss a day in the fest to be close for the next day, but that’s their problem. We came in when we were ready and ended up posted up in the back by the trash every day. I didn’t care, it wasn’t as big as I thought and the sound was grate! I went up front and danced to all my favorite bands and was front center for Cheese. I am glad they have the standing/dancing area. It was also funny that by the time the headliner came on most of the people in front were gone (probably they were exhausted from sleeping in line) and you can be up there anyway. With that being said, I think the camping out and waiting in line for the next day should be banned. There should be a designated time each morning that you are allowed to start waiting in line, like 7am, and then pass out numbers accordingly. :thumbsup
:wave All moved and office is up and runin. I have to dig in here but only after I attack this huge pile of Admin :rock
ROCK STEADY! Collectivley we do have the solution to Fergs questions. Combined with his careful direction we can solve all these small bumps in the road. Slay that! :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
I agree 100% with this. I was in a group with maybe 20 people. We always had 2 runners get in line around 8:00 (town park line) and we put down 2 tarps in the 2nd section behind the path. We had one big tarp (not sure of the size, definitely bigger than 5x7) and one smaller tarp. We didn’t take up too much room and we didn’t go right to the front. Randomizing the numbers would make it so we wouldn’t have the chance to all sit together.
Why should we have to sit in the back just because we have a bigger group? We went through the same process as everyone else did, yet because we all come up together as a group we can’t sit in the middle of the grounds?
I don’t believe the current system is perfect, but if something is going to change, please don’t punish us because we have a group that wants to sit together.
I like the idea of not allowing chairs in the line area until 6am to prevent people sleeping in line and also putting on a wristband when giving out the numbers. The wristband will be put on the person in line when they get their number and when you give the number back before running in, you’re wristband must match the number on the card. This way you can’t sell the number (wristbands being tampered with would not be allowed in) and nobody is camping out the night before.
hey odd fired–come get a cup of coffee next year. it’s for you brother! :cheers
This was our eleventh consecutive TBF, driving out from south-central Indiana. I’ve been getting in line around 3:30ish 44 consectutive mornings and getting a number in the low 100s. I see the same folks in line year after year. Dozing to the waking birds in Telluride is one of the things I look forward to each June. I say keep the Tarp Line rules as they are. If it isn’t broke, don’t fix it.
That’s what I’m talking about! :thumbsup
Unfortunately many feel it is broke; personally still straddlin’ that particular fence.
Mark expressed his opinion that he didn’t feel it was broken. He’s expressing his opinion. I agree with him.
Hopefully, the planet can fix some of the easy ones which I submitted in my survey response:
- no selling of line #'s. They will need figure out to identify this but this is a big no no.
- most likely, they will need to establish some time frame when people are allowed to line up the night before. I don’t think that many people do it but apparently enough people are ticked off about it that a change may be needed.
Good luck trying to find a perfect system. I look forward to the Planet making the needed changes based on the festivarian survey and their own observations (and not this forum).
like i said at the start: it makes no sense to me how this TARP run works but I am cool with it. [My camp has access by soundboard everyday–though I only watched about 3-4 hours of music from it–so i am one of the folks that ‘benefit’ from current system] At the end of the day, it just seems wrong that people are paying big bucks for TARP spots and same people are always getting the good spots.
On the other hand, I bet i watched an hour+ of music from the picnic tables that Tom provided this year. What a GREAT idea and one that I hope PB will run with by adding a few more in the vicinity. (THANKS AGAIN MAYOR!)
I always meet nice people TARP hopping and watched tunes from all over the place.