FaceOnMars -
Re: your responses to Craig’s questions: Great post.
As one who has learned how to benefit from the current line procedures, I still would “vote against my own self interests*” and say they are not really fair. Just cuz I know how work the system doesn’t make it right.
*The state motto of Kansas
The planet in general is hotter and dryer and dust storms are becoming more and more frequent not just at Fest. Pay attention people the planet is changing . Consider dust a part of your diet.
Add me to the list of the vocal minority that thinks the tarp line is rigged and needs to be changed.
With all due respect, you are part of the biggest camp and didn’t really go into the fest and you don’t see a problem? Well, duh. Now imagine, cane in hand, you are there with just your s/o and your tarp location is entirely up to you, and you’re camping in Illium. Different story, right?
If the planet isn’t interested in changing the rules, AT LEAST abide by the ones you already have! The line would actually work a LOT better if you enforced the current rules.
Another idea: leave everything exactly the same but announce the location to begin lining up for the following day at the END of the day’s music. Then there won’t be anybody leaving chairs out for the following day every morning. What’s the point to having the rule that it starts at the BEGINNING of the last set? Just to make me miss the headliner??? It just seems like some of these rules we thought up by a bunch of people sitting around smoking some…oh wait…crap.
I just realized that if the rules are not enforced again next year, I can get a 4 day pass and just sleep in the town line! No camping needed, and it’s the only way to get a good number anyway! Win win!!
I thought about that some nights as I was walking from town back to Town Park, that some people out there appeared to be quite cozy with a chair and sleeping bag and cooler.
As a first-timer, I didn’t necessarily think the line system was fair, but I also didn’t feel like I had to be right up in the front. I got in line each morning and found adequate space, but the system is definitely not fair as currently implemented.
Regarding single day tickets, I think they should go on sale after lineup announcements, but since I’ve now been, I don’t care what the policy is because I’m buying a four-day pass as long as I can!
I spent my first two years camping at Illium. My party of three always found space on empty tarps or on partially occupied tarps. In fact, I always had a good spot for every set I wanted to see. I never bothered to run a tarp until I joined a larger camp, and there were people on our tarp for every set. Some were members of our camp and some weren’t.
CJ: I believe that you would “vote against your own self interests” based upon your general take on things, which is illustrated by an earlier post you had made:
“Seems to me that EVERYONE who shows up ready to occupy a chair at the end of the second-to-last set should have an equal opportunity to be #1, not just the people who set up a chair there days before. Just because I was #41 on Thursday does NOT give me the absolute right to be #41 on Friday”
I think your prior point (quoted above) gets at part of the issue really well, in so far as the opportunistic nature of how the system has “evolved”. In other words, there’s already a sufficiently large number of folks who are all simultaneously vying for the same position at the outset. It’s kind of like a race with 200 participants who don’t know where they should officially be at the start of the race. Instead of randomly hovering around until the official time to all make a mad dash to line up in an equitable order (which is a nebulous proposition to beging with), they’ve adopted a quasi official rule of first come first served beyond the currently set limits … which is apparently being abused. It is important to note that many of these people represent a much larger contingent (aka “camps” or “crews”).
Seems the only fair way to allow those to comply with and compete to be #1 the prior night (according to the current rules) would be to setup a lottery the night prior.
But this really begs the question which many have already raised: if there’s going to be a lottery for those who have the resources (via association of larger groups) to sleepovernight and retain their position, then why not open the process up to a wider spectrum of festivarians who aren’t as “connected” with camps/crews and still get some sleep while making a true effort? IOW, a lottery at 6am or 8am (instead of one at 10pm the night prior) would be much more inclusive to the average festivarian who’s willing to make a decent effort.
Let me know how that works out for you; certainly would be cheaper than a condo in town or (shudder) up in the village, not that we’re likely to do that again.
Something personal to pass along to you as well, before my comments on this thread.
I went looking for you and your NM flag, and started with the group next to us, since believe it or not, they were flying a fish and NM flag. The personal note was that a woman named Becca? asked me to tell you that she had been trying to get ahold of you and believe you may actually be from the saem town, so beware! :rolleyes
My $.02 on this thread…
I don’t think a one size fits all policy for tarp size is the answer; it may be and in fact is quite sufficient for the tow of us and we rarely use it all, just our 2 chairs and a blanket to dance on. Might work for 4 if they are close! 
I think the large tarps probably work out to about the same square footage per Festivarian, but YMMV. By Your I mean all of us, not just you OddF.
So after Firstgrass, unfortunately missed it completely, we went to YMSB at the CC. Woke up a little after 6:30 Thursday and although, probably didn’t catch the Ganjala until a little after 7 was certainly in tarp line by 7:30. Not expecting much but did want to see if I could make the run from the village via the G and still get under 4-500. I actually ended up wtih 397, standing in front of the old Jil, which I didn’t think was all that shabby and also did not plan on using it. While waiting for numbers, I did the line mingle to see who I might recognize and do some general recon after bringing the Planet back to a buch of folks.
Ran into some locals, who we have come to know over the years and since they are part of that whole tarp conspiracy, when they invited us to share, we did!
After I got me number, went back up to the Village and rousted the wife and got ready for some fest fun!
Needless to say, I did not catch the early G the remainder of the and did enjoy and I believe fairly reciprocated the Kindness of our friends and even managed to make several new ones over the course or the run.
Not too surprising saw many of the same folks in approximately the same location over the 4 days. Of course we all moved a little further back and left or right as demand for prime real estate drove some folks to be in line ever earlier.
Didn’t see any line number scalpers, but since that would have taken place post my departure to go back up, can’t speak to that, but sounds like it has gotten more organized, which is probably both expected and unfortunate. But as Ferg says, why put the local kids out of work?
Dust was bad no doubt and probably varied as to how bad depending on location and activity level. By Sunday night, I could barely breathe through my nose.
So I guess randomize the line numbers based on wristband #'s is still my suggestion, from the for what it is worth department, but leave the Tarps alone, at least until some serious research is performed. In my mind larger groups w/ large tarps are equivalent to small groups with smaller tarps.
Perhaps in the PB camp, they might, repeat might consdier have a section up front that was exclusive to 5X7 and then on each side permit the larger tarps. Might be worth experimenting.
No comment on the family camp, but that in my mind was the big space eater and likely to be a valid explanation for how crowded it seemed to some. No suggestion for that, other than perhaps several large communcal tents, which might improve morale, visibility and other intangible side benefits.
Had a great time, even though the G made Nightgrass less than I had hoped, it was still an awesome experience. So glad we made it!
Maybe someone should start a no-tarp movement. Just bring your chair and have a seat.
That’s called tarp hopping and is highly encouraged.
My main objection is the “across the street” setup the day before. Whoever gets in this line has that number all 4 days. So next year, do we set up a chair on Tuesday? Methinks that’s what this will evolve to. I don’t have a solution, other than lottery (which is a pain on PB’s part), as there will always be a way to buck the system.
Love this fest and thank you Planet Bluegrass! Happy 4th!
Now THAT is just wrong. This was my 37th TBF and if I had witnessed that I’m not sure I could have kept quiet about it. We (Runamuck) encourage our virgins to volunteer for tarp line/run duty, and they always step up. I stay up very late most nights, so I often check on our tarp line sitters to give them a break while I stay in the line. I was there 2 of the 4 mornings when the tickets were handed out, and it seemed to be later and later each day. If TBF would give the #s out much earlier, but late enough for the nightgrass attendees to get in line, then there wouldn’t even be a line after about 3 a.m. But selling/buying numbers? That is a bunch of crap.
Craig, it was VERY dusty this year, and even though I didn’t ask why the water trucks weren’t around as much, it was my guess that because we are on water restrictions (still) that it was more important to conserve the water in case we need it to put out fires.
So now you know why I was waving at you to SLOW DOWN when you came barreling through the park! :lol :lol :lol
Another great year all around. And, I still have my 5x7 tarps that I bought when they first put that limit on them, so they must be about 20 years old by now and haven’t ended up in any dumpsters yet!
(p.s. don’t answer that phone in the trunk).
So how about TBF give out RANDOMLY NUMBERED AND DATED WRISTBANDS, FOR THAT DAY’S RUN ONLY, and actually place it on the wrist of the person in line. That way they could NOT be sold or traded etc. If the wristband wearer is not the person who will actually run the tarp, they would need to be in line with the assigned runner, and the gatekeeper would be the one to cut the wristband off and give the okay to the pinch runner. Any altered or cut wristbands would be denied by the gatekeeper and the offender would be sent to the back of the line and made to wait for 30 minutes before they could go in. Any person receiving the tarp line wristband would also be required to have the appropriate festival wristband if they are on the TP/WF side, both of which require a 4-day pass. This would eliminate paying kids w/o the proper tickets to stay in line who then leave once numbers are handed out. I did notice that when I received my camp’s number that no one checked to see if I or anyone in line had the proper wristband for the location from which I came. I could have just been a random paid person in line who then passes along the number to my “benefactor.”
Or PB could really mess with the “certain early birds” in line by giving the numbers to the back of the line and work forward. That would get the old goat, hmm? :evil
Or they could have a fishbowl with numbers in it and you draw out a number and take what you get, stamp the number on your forehead so you can’t sell or trade it.
Or just leave it the way it is and enjoy this silly discussion every year. Any person who goes will either not care about this and return, or they will get so pissed off they won’t come back and that’s just fine by me. :evil :cheers
Just wanted to contribute to this conversation, since it’s something that’s been bugging me for…well, EVERY year…
I had a most wonderful time this year, and really this line situation is the ONLY thing that I dislike about the festival. Other than that, kudos to the entire organization for another amazing year!
Just have to agree with the person who said it’s a little silly to have to line up a day prior to the show, miss the afternoon music, festivities, just to get a decent line number. It would make so much more sense to randomize the line numbers, and just give a set time to pass them out to everyone. Then we could go back to our campsites and enjoy ourselves and fellow festivarians, rather than stressing out about the next day. While the Rockygrass method presents its own set of problems (people backtracking in order to get multiple line numbers), it’s a much more sensible way to savor the WHOLE experience of the festival - not just line duty.
While tradition is important, a bad idea is a bad idea, no matter how many years it’s been in place. Planet Bluegrass has updated it’s rules regarding ticket scalping and a number of other policies to adapt to changing times. No reason why the line policy can’t evolve in kind.
All in all, I think this festival is about meeting new friends, playing music, and enjoying our limited vacation time to savor this oasis of beauty and music, NOT stressing out about line placement @ 6 a.m. I usually camp at Town Park and therefore always have a great spot in the festival, so it’s not like I’m just wanting a handout without working for it. I’m fine with any spot in the festival, but it’s weird to see the makeshift refugee camp that inevitably pops up upwards of 15 hours before gates open. Just my thoughts, thanks!
last time i heard this much whining it involved school girls and a trip to the mall
Here’s something else to think about. Randomizing the numbers AND enforcing a strict 5x7 tarp size would really suck for anyone with more than 4 people in their party. If a large group can’t put out two tarps next to each other, they will start bringing in much larger tarps.
Another thing to think about is that if a 5x7 tarp size is strictly enforced, tarp hoppers will suffer. If people don’t have as much space, they will be less willing to let others come join them. If a group of 3 only has a 5x7 tarp, they might not have room for the occasional tarpless wanderer. And forget about a larger group tarp hopping.
:thumbsup
Maybe, but it was like the “eye of the hurricane” in this section of cyberspace during the festival … hardly a peep from anyone.
I will personally always try to adapt to the circumstances and have as much fun as possible during the festival & I’m sure others are similar.
Nonetheless, we see what we see and make mental notes all while dealing with things on the fly. At some level, we are good at “holding things in” at the moment in the name of having fun.
So if we’re going to naturally overlook things during the festival – almost by reflex – to keep the good vibes flowing when it counts, then I think it’s productive to reflect upon some things during the other 361 days … at least as a “miniature catharsis” of sorts.