"we either need more space or crappier music… "
You guys crack me up. This has to be one of the funniest things I have ever read on this forum. Think of me when you’re drinking that beer! :lol :lol :lol
Auntie Hope <— who decided to see how the other half was living… :evil
:wave I’m one of those people who gets yelled at because I like to dance, and when the music moves me, I get up and dance. :dance If I took the time to get over to the “designated” area I would miss the song!
One of the girls I camped with 2 years ago thought I was joking when I said I would be dancing on the tarp, and just couldn’t believe it when I actually did. However, by Sunday, she was right up there with me dancing away and having a good 'ol time, which is why we are there.
I’m short so I don’t block anyone’s view anyway, but I do look behind me to see if I really am blocking anyone, and if so, I adjust and go stand in front of a big tree to dance! :woohoo
I’d rather have people in front of me dancing :dancing than people behind me talking any day! :talk or drunk guys yelling! :drunk
Which is EXACTLY what they do at Merlefest and it SUCKS . . .
How about, instead, the Planet establish an “old goat” section - - - a shaded spot over by the silo, far enough from the stage so the bass tones won’t interfere with your hearing aide and close enough to the bathrooms so you can make it there in time . . .
Ha - I posted about the exact same thing last year. Sadly, it looks like tradition wins and the area in front of the stage will always be full of empty tarps and motionless sitters…
Fest is fest!
Part of the fun is sitting in the tarp line and goofing off. Part of the fun is sorting out who got what lottery number. Part of the fun is running like a maniac with a huge tarp - one that is WAYYYY bigger than a dinky 5X7 - and unfurling it like a flag and dancing on it when you’re done. Part of the fun is making new friends when you’re the only one on your respective tarp and folks want to stop and sit a spell.
Part of the fun is watching this topic unfold each and every year, at each and every PB festival.
I suspect that if someone comes up with a viable, reasonable, executable solution, it’ll be rejected by the other 98% of us festi-folk, and they’ll bitch about that.
Plus, I haven’t met many folks who are surly because they’re in the tarp line, or are surly because they didn’t get as far in front because they are slower than the next guy.
A couple of years ago I broke my foot (at RG), sat in the back in a chair, didn’t run the tarp and didn’t sit in the line. I still had a blast, people were still nice to me, and there is not a bad seat anywhere between the stage and Wildflower Pavilion.
There are seats/chairs in the front, maybe you guys can figure out how to get a seat there. I’d do it if I didn’t love being on the tarp so much - and everything that has to occur to get there.
SCOWL*
I shall aspire to keep my face motionless as I sit in my favorite spot on the tarp that someone I love ran for me and the rest of my festi-family.
And, don’t shoosh me!!!
it’s too long of a day from the first act to the last to stand the entire time. And if those standing are in the front, they block the view of the band for people behind them. I am ALL FOR DANCING… and if the dance area needs to be bigger… then perhaps it should be enlarged. But in front, please NO!
Erndog I love you dearly but Merlefest does not suck at all… and yes, I have always reserved seats… the dancers to the side there works just fine in my opinion. There are some other things that did not work at all last time I was there… but this forum is not the place for THAT discussion. We will talk about it RockyGrass… but not on the tarp…
…cuz no matter what the venue, “talking kills music”, so color me sitting and listening to every note… until the end of the evening when the standing at the end of the night is expected… sometimes even before the encore.
Every venue and festival has it’s culture. and they do not all have to be the same. I like the culture of the Planet Bluegrass festivals … especially the ones at Lyons. at Telluirde, I adjust pretty well!
and PLEASE … don’t call me an old lady just because I choose not to stand and dance all day… there are plenty of people there who are over 50…but no one there is old in spirit.
:flower
LuAnna
I’ve been attending for several years now but have been to many, many other large festivals (Grey Fox/Winterhawk, Philadelphia Folk Fest, Merlefest, etc. all of which are magnitudes larger, etc.). None have this “problem.” By problem, I mean a policy that sucks the life out of the festival by having people spend hours in line waiting for a ticket for a chance to wait in another line when they could be hanging out in the campground partying, jamming, etc… I understand that as with any other festival there will be a land rush, for better or worse, and that some means needs to be determined to make it fair, but the current policy seems malicious - wait in line til we feel like coming over to hand out the numbers. I suggest a computerized solution to this–generate random numbers via computer kiosks that people can access anytime the day/night before and then limit the line up to the morning as stated currently in the policy (1 hr before) based on those randomly generated numbers.
At the biggest stage at the New Orleans Jazz fest, there’s a small VIP area (paying posers!), then a fence. Then a HUGE area that allows NO tarps & NO chairs. It’s first come, first stand. It is just about empty for the first couple of bands, then fills up closer to the time when the big name acts hit the stage.
Seems to work pretty well for those willing to stand, and those who want to sit in chairs or party on huge tarps don’t seem to mind it because that section starts even with the sound board - still pretty decent seats - and for most of the day there’s nobody blocking their view. And if something moves them to dance, they just head up toward the stage into the standing room only section.
I’ve attended RG in Lyons since 1992 and RMBGF since 1988 and I have seen the process evolve.
There are many topics on this thread.
The 1st post is a request to hand out numbers early rather later in the post midnight hours. I hope this happens too as many people would rather enjoy a social time not stuck in line or get a full nights sleep. I often feel restricted by the whim of PB and the lack of a planned time to hand out the numbers. I realize that PB has a lot of issue to attend to during the evening, but the sooner this is over the sooner those other issues can be attended too. I guess I am asking to make this a higher priority in the list of things to do in the midnight hours. As for the 5AM comment, I recall this happened because the person assigned to this task had fallen asleep. For those that posted they enjoy the social of the line, then you can stay in line after the numbers are handed out.
I like the idea of the line moving forward to pick up a number from the PB personnel. The other comment of PB taking 3x5 card requests is probably asking PB to take to much time on this issue.
Tarps vs Chairs is an interesting discussion. Merlefest switched to assigned chairs at a premium price, but the chairs were uncomfortable. I agree there is too much open area during the day, but this is a choice of the people to not attend the music of the lessor known bands. Personally, I look forward to the earlier acts and hearing artists I am not familiar with. But once the late afternoon sun is sinking low and the well known bands are performing the area gets full.
Dancing versus sitting: One reason I think we always sat down in front is that the front of house sound system is sitting below ground level and they need to see the stage. I always enjoyed the idea of sitting and listening and if I want to dance I move to the dance area. I’ve felt this way even before I started feeling Old and In the Gray!
So back to the original post. Another idea floated around recently was to issue line numbers with your festival ticket. It could still be generated randomly, it could be assigned differently for each days music, there could be no preference for week-end ticket holders or daily ticket holders, and thus there is no need for a lineup at midnight.
I had a good idea for the line in the morning, as it seems some people were choosing to not try to sort themselves out by number “I’m not moving”. It would be a minimal effort to print out some big numbers and staple them on the posts- <100 ahead of the first fence post, 100-200 between the first and second posts, etc, maybe 2 posts per 100 numbers. My friend Keith told me “you should just do it yourself”. And I just might.
Here’s what I wrote to PBG a while back…
I understand that you guys wrangle with this issue quite a lot. So I am sure you understand that the uncertainty and apparent arbitrariness of the current random card system leaves many of your customers with feelings of angst, anxiety, disengagement, and ill will – not to mention exhausted every day - marring an otherwise professionally organized and extremely pleasant and very special event.
Pain points. The “no waiting until midnight” rule is routinely ignored. In the morning, some people mysteriously appear with stacks of good numbers while others missed out entirely because they went to pee or gave up and went to bed. Everyone in line misses out on the jamming and the energy back at camp. The older folks and those with children resign themselves to either exhaustion or opting out and feeling excluded. Each day at the fest, many of your customers spend far too much time speculating and hypothesizing and strategizing; trading rumors and horror stories with their neighbors; drawing straws to determine who’s turn it is to suffer; and then nursing hangovers and narcolepsy the next day as a result of staying up to late and/or getting up too early. Many people skip at least the last musical act each night simply to get back in line, angering everyone else who leaves at the end and plays by the rules. Once in line, everyone must sit and wait, wondering if the numbers will arrive at the relatively palatable 12:30 am, or the horrendously painful 3:30 am. In addition, I suspect that this system is somewhat unpopular with your staff.
There is so much negative energy and contradiction of the Planet Bluegrass culture swirling over this single issue throughout the weekend. So, is system this indeed the best you can do? I would expect that an organization that pursues excellence and leadership with the zeal of as Planet Bluegrass would not give up on this unfortunate exception to their achievements.
Here’s my two cents (coming from a professional human/workflow systems expert who has been analyzing and implementing human-centric workflow systems for almost thirty years).
… It’s time to automate it a bit. Via a pre-issued numbering system.
It’s time to “let go” of the premise behind the current system which (as I perceive it) seeks to somehow reward those people willing to stay up until 2:00 or 3:00 am (increasingly only to get what may turn out to be a lousy number), and to perhaps capture some of that “waiting in line” feeling of community that many of us remember from our youth and days gone by. However, it strikes me that the “cost” of the current system in terms of customer alienation now outweighs those intangible benefits, which I believe are regrettably being eroded by the process anyway, and are a thing of the past no matter what you try. The fact is, the success of your events has forced you into a new operational reality, and the old informal systems have become counterproductive and “costly” to operate, nostalgic as they may linger in our memories.
It’s time to automate it. Print out random numbers on the wristbands, or hand out a second random number wristband when people pick up their tickets. Then, have a drawing each day, and announce the results at a break - or post the results at the gate precisely at midnight (in order to retain a bit of the mystery and the communal gathering after-hours).
The benefits of this system include reduced hassle and headache for the staff, and reduced uncertainty and exhaustion for the customers. There will be a period of adjustment and discontent from some fans for sure, but once that is past, you will have a fair and workable system that can be relied on indefinitely into the future, and you do not have to revisit this issue every year (at least for a while anyway).
The highest benefit will be the elimination of a significant source of negative energy. (I am not promising that negative energy will go away, but it may have to find a new host to infect for a change).
Alas, you will lose the illusion that you can reward your most loyal fans for their extra effort, but to my taste this approach somewhat resembles masochism contest. If this loyalty reward is indeed an important feature to PB, I suggest you could come up with a contest (or contests) to issue the first fifty or hundred spots on a more subjective basis. (You could have fun with it - camp site awards, costume awards, dancing awards, lottery drawings, essay and photo contests, sustainability awards, on-line lottery drawings and trivia contests during the winter… you could offer a chance at these prime spaces to the people who purchase their tickets early) This approach would be more work and prone to accusations of arbitrariness, but at least it comes at the issue from a positive and possibly fun place, rather that the current system that is an arbitrary solely from a negative space.
Anyway, thanks for your time,
McMike
Proposal Details. The challenge is how to devise a method to print, issue, draw and then sort out in line the pre-issued numbers without too much cost and complexity.
System #1: Issue sequential numbered wristbands, and then draw the starting number each day. The line starts with that number then goes in sequentially, circling back around to number one at the end of the list. That’s the simplest system. You draw #2,023, and that’s the first in line, then #2,024 is second, etc. The next day, you draw #364…
System #2: issue color coded-bands printed in groups of letters and/or numbers. You print perhaps 20 copies of each group. Then, all the “A’s” go first, then all the “B’s” etc, (the actual sequence somehow assigned or drawn randomly). This system is a little flashier and it sorts the line into “waves” for a sort of Monte Carlo start. But is somewhat more complex to administer.
A philosophical look: The tarp line thing sucks
practical suggestion: hand out all the tarp line numbers, randomly, on thursday afternoon when 3-day passers can get their bracelet. same number for all three days so no nightly line. Not there thursday afternoon or don’t have a three day pass? tough. have more than one number among you and your friends? Great! - keep the best number and share the highest numbers with others who didn’t get one. Late to the party? tough. lost your number after getting it on thursday? tough
More philosophy: Dancing happens
practical suggestion: have a designated dance area up front, and on the website and on each pass, print: “we expect that some people will actually have fun including dancing in a designated area up front near the stage. That shit happens at bluegrass festivals. If that’s not your thing (i.e. you want to be boring or complain about others having fun), you should consider playing bingo at your local event center or maybe going to FolksFest or, if you insist on being at RockyGrass, locate your tarp on either side of the stage to avoid those fun-havers, or just stay the hell away cause you’re a frickin’ killjoy and you will be ousted from BPG forever if you say stuff or throw shit at people who are there to have fun. Any questions? …”
PBG should hire me to do this - don’t you think?
RR
The OBVIOUS solution: utilize the unique numbers printed on each wristband.
Print the last 3 digits in 48 point font for easy visibility.
Draw a random number from 1 to 999 on the 1st day of the fest.
That’s the starting place for Day 1.
Next day, the number advances by 333
Etc.
So simple, no added cost or hassle!
But in front, please NO!
I agree with LuAnna 100%! I’m a dancer myself, but being just over a couple of years from
hitting 50, I also appreciate the opportunity to sit down when I choose.
If anything, I’d be for widening the dancing area by a good two feet, which would allow for
more dancers without obstructing views.
Ok so I read it all and I am no less confused about what is going to happen on on July 27th. No changes? Midnight line and numbers given out sometime after? Something else?
Correct.
MORE DANCING SPACE, PERIOD. And I like the wrist band idea, where 1 number is drawn and the next day you ad 333 or whatever the 1/3 of the total numbers would be. Not that hard, I would be willing to pay $5 more to implement any changes. JUST DO IT PB. AND please have more dancing room this year!!! Pathetic the only places to dance many times last year was in the walkway to the dance section because it is plum full. I feel there should be dance section on both sides, same size as the on on the east has been. I love having a place to sit, but I’d rather have a place to dance. It is MUSIC, not a movie.
I’m no soils expert or land engineer, but I wonder if it would be possible for PG to “dig” a slope or even a “pit” right in front of the stage for dancing. That way, anyone sitting just above that area could see just fine and dancers could come and go to that standing room only area throughout the day or night.
Maybe that’s just weird. But so is dancing in a tiny walkway off to the side of a stage.
That is a good randomization idea, however there are a couple of things: first the ticket serial numbers would also have to be random or else you’d possibly have a situation where the last people to buy tix would have the best numbers. Second, this would eliminate any reward for doing “whatever it takes” to get a number. I don’t think it is coincidence that the people up front are the best audience in the world, period, year after year.
I may have said this before, but I’d be for making the poser pit a little smaller and the dance area a little larger. :thumbsup there is still some area up there that is hardly ever used and not in the sightlines of the audience.