It’s nice to have your own spot if you want to leave your stuff there and go into town. You really can’t leave stuff on someone’s empty tarp that might fill up while you’re gone. I do move up to other’s empty tarps in the front during bands I want to see up close, but most of the time, we like sitting towards the back on our own little tarp. I guess next year we could try poaching a corner of a huge unoccupied tarp and claim eminent domain when the owner arrives.
I don’t necessarily know if there is a “correct” decision; however, any given decision will have it’s consequences. From a marketing position, PB may wish to consider:
A.) Continue to allow the status quo regarding the eternal tarp line, empty space up front, and tarps bleeding into food lines … which would appease the “traditionalists” who are willing and able to work the system to their advantage by a communal effort of sheer numbers and superior “insider knowledge” of the system. This route might keep 2-3k core repeat festivarians appeased, but it also kinda enables somewhat of a “stacked deck” whereby newcomers and semi-regulars might get turned off having to go through extreme contortions to even have a shot at a decent spot AND get some sleep. While most people in most “camps” are extremely friendly and generally welcoming, the current tarp line system is still very competitive, somewhat cliquish, and antithetical to a relaxed/festive music experience, IMO. I wouldn’t say that this is an “incorrect” trajectory, as it does keep a certain core constituency happy on a number of fronts. Nonetheless, there seems to be a growing risk of devolving into more of a closed system - alienating newcomers and people who don’t want to deal with a system which has simply gotten out of hand.
B.) Or, PB could opt to “shuffle the deck” a bit more in terms of access to better real estate via randomization of tarp line numbers and tarp size enforcement. This option would probably go over well with those who aren’t connected with large groups and simply can’t play the game and get some sleep. I believe this segment of the market vastly outnumbers the those who favor and benefit from the status quo. Shuffling the deck would probably go a long way to help enable a more “open system” in so far as a fair and level playing field to court newcomers, bring back semi-regulars more frequently, and retaining those who are a bit disgruntled on this count but come anyway. People would no longer have to choose between no sleep or pledging to a camp … and those who have simply opted out of the tarp run entirely in recent years would again be more enaged in the process. On the other side of the coin, this would surely ruffle the feathers of a good chunk of people who have gotten used to the status quo.
I can see how PB might be adverse to tinkering with a system which has proven itself to sell out regularly in recent years; however, by the same token, the powers that be surely must realize there wouldn’t be a mass exodus by those in favor of the status quo if the deck were shuffled and large groups were no longer “guaranteed” large blocks of primo real estate or if they had to hop around a bit more to see all of their fellow festivarians. I see the appeal of keeping very loyal elements of your market very happy, but I don’t believe it’s an “either / or” proposition.
Face -
I think you’ve got it, at least for Town Park campers. Either keep it the same or make the changes. I’d rather change it, but just cuz I think it would be more fair for everyone AND give everyone a chance to sleep (something that vacations are made for).
However I would make addition to your changes (if any are made). Double or triple the size of the “no standing zone” and make it a “Standing ONLY” zone. No tarp, no chairs, just FANS of the bands that are playing. Hey, that already kinda happens for Yonder and Greensky and the others for which that the security people just give up on protecting that area. The bands would like it, the people who don’t get prime real estate for the entire day would like it, and even the camps that have “huge tracts of land” (Python) could hang out or join the throng of fans up front.
OK. Just one more thought. Allow the tapers to put up a rope or caution tape around their area to protect it a bit. I so LOVE what they do for us!!!
I think this guy is onto something!!
I actually had to re-read that, cause I almost thought you said “I think this guy is on something”. :lol
First, I was a festivirgin this year. That being said,
I’ve been to 100’s of shows, festivals, etc. Telluride
Is by far the greatest venue I’ve been to. The sound
Is phenomenal for an outdoor show. I don’t need
to see Jerry Douglas’ sweat rolling off his forehead.
I viewed the shows from all different places and loved it all.
The tarp line is one of the silliest things I’ve ever seen at a show.
Every time I passed that line I thought To myself what
A waste if time. I will be back and will enjoy my sleep
And the show. Guess you guys can figure out this
nonsense.
BTW, nightgrass is fantastic. :cheers
Good grief. I go away for 10 days, and this thread is still going? :lol
I read it…and I’m not going to dig back for specific citations to reply to, but here are the thoughts I had while reading.
- Plans which make managing the line more work for the planet should be avoided.
- Some of us don’t care about the front of the line or the front of the festival. I get up at 4:00, get my 140-180 number, and score our desired shade spot for all the families in out camp. Plans which “level the playing field” for the absurd front of the line shouldn’t punish folks who are reasonable.
- Enlarging the “Standing only” area sounds nice, but it’s going to be pretty empty too often.
- Stop whining about the “vast expanses of empty tarps” and just go sit on them for pete’s sake
I do agree the beginning of the line is ludicrous. If I were king, the first changes I’d make would be:
- Any chairs found anywhere near the line between noon and “the start of the last act” should be taken to the lost and found. Moving the stupid chairs back and forth over the walkway at pre-determined times is just stupid.
- When numbers are issues, make the first 100 randomized. This puts all the line buffoons on the same playing field.
This should effectively change the behaviors of the “line mafia” since they can’t game the system the way they have been.
Most importantly, realize the Planet isn’t our tool for this. I heard somebody say “Claire essentially runs the line”. What a bunch of hooey. He’s just more extreme (read: absurd) than the rest of us. So stop deferring to the mafia. When you walk past the empty chairs in the middle of the day, move them. Disrupt the norm. If you don’t like it, fix it. If you find you’re in a minority, suck it up.
Spot on! :medal
Let’s not confuse the issue with logic!
I’m ashamed of myself…forgive me… 
It’d sure be nice to turn back the clock to yesteryear and have a 4am “start time” be orderly and reasonable, but unfortunately it seems the genie is out of the bottle at this stage of the game. A very slippery slope has emerged whereby a large number of people are all competing to be in the front of the pack & have pushed the limits beyond reason.
While randomizing the first 100 numbers might be a step in the right direction, I don’t know that it’d put a sufficient road block to the slippery slope & it still doesn’t address the “institutional advantage” a large camp would still have over couples/smaller_groups who would still be subject to not getting any sleep every night vs. big camps where people take turns with duties.
I agree that empty chairs which violate the rules should be tossed aside … but this is a good example of how festivarian spirit and basic human nature can be at odds. IOW, most people won’t make the direct confrontation and will prefer to go with the flow of “good vibes”. Who wants to ruffle anyone’s feathers? Yet at the same time, some people are willing to make more “passive” incremental gains by pushing the envelope of established rules under the cloak of the masses.
By contrast, on a powder day, if people started lining up their skis/boards in the lift line the night before, you better believe they’ll be tossed aside come 6am or whenever the first person shows up! Seems to me, the “no friends on a powder day” mantra at least cuts to the chase, yet we all get along and smile together.
Certainly not looking to pile more work on to PB, but I don’t think it would be an enormous undertaking by any stretch … although I’m sure there’d be a transitional period which whereby people would need to get used to & accept randomization of the tarp line.
:zzz :zzz :zzz :zzz :zzz
:spill :spill :spill
Sure thing ,FOS, aka Mr. Mundane.
Easy there Billy, its going to be alright :cheers
Keep pushing it, FOM. Come out and tell everyone how you really feel about the Telluride Bluegrass Festival.
STFU
As much as we disagree on this topic & perhaps our personalities aren’t exactly on the same page, please know that I have no bad bones with you at all Billy. How could I? I don’t really know you.
As far as my feelings re: the TBF, it’s definitely my favorite festival (musically speaking) which comes through town … although I’m a deadhead first and foremost and have picked up SCI as a runner up in recent years. This is even in light of the fact that only Blues & Brews will have hosted all remaining members of the Grateful Dead (as of this year Mickey will be here), but on the whole I like TBF much better for a number of reasons.
But to get to what you’re driving at (based on your pm’s): TBF is not 100% my thing … although it certainly ranks up there! I’m into Sam Bush, Bela Fleck, LOS, Emmy Lou, GSBG, RRE, YMSB Grisman, etc. but wouldn’t travel very far to see them as they don’t do it 100% for me as far as “face melting” is concerned (although Sam Bush’s set reached that level this year). Maybe I’ve been spoiled and take it for granted.
I already travel tons to see Further/Phil/Ratdog/SCI over the years … and have also done so too to a lesser extent for Peter Rowan. Even if TBF isn’t a direct bull’s eye for my very particular tastes, it’s well in the ballpark to dedicate 4 days+ at my home venue where I don’t have to travel 2000 miles rt.
I can also go on about how I’ve played mandolin & guitar for years, but it all doesn’t have anything to do one way or the other with my feelings about how the line/tarp situation has de-volved. One doesn’t have to be #1 in the fan club to make an observation about the equity of how things are going down re: the tarp issue (I believe 95% of the rest of the festival is run extremely well).
:wave still hashin it out hua? Huck is correct, we are the police of our own fest nation, speak up, react, police the situation yourselves for tarp line infractions.
I say lets get funky with it. 9 A.M. A round of ice cold beer for all the runners, blindfold them, and open the flippin gate, may the best folk win :cheers
Vets, get a golden ticket but must host or man the gates for that smooth ride into fest
and me well I have come to the conclusion that TBF is just part of who I am and any way I get it is OK with me but not to attend hurts so Im willin to run blindfolded. :flower
Let’s remember that Craig WANTED to hear our input. Way back on page 3 of this thread, he asked for our suggestions and ideas. That’s why this thread continues to move along.
We ALL love this fest, and we ALL want to make it even better. So a few suggestions might be helpful. It will be up to Craig and the staff to determine what changes might be made and whether they want to be involved in the tarp line fiasco at all. Maybe they see that some tweaking could make our experience even better, or perhaps they’ll say they are too busy to do anything about it.
But let’s face it: this is one of the ONLY festivals that would actually take the time to ask our opinions (New Orleans Jazz Fest is another that is community-oriented). And whether or not changes are made, just the fact that they are listening really solidifies our feelings towards the fest.
So yeah, let’s hear MORE from us! Whether you want to make changes or keep things the same, or see some other way of making our fest better, shout it out! Even a small suggestion could make a big difference!
Hammer. Nail. Head.
:cheers
Wow!! Billy why the anger towards FOM??? Just because he disagrees with you? I personally enjoy reading FOM’s well thought out posts and have agreed with 95% of them. You’re coming off in an negative light with the name calling.
One more thought on the tarp line…Thursday I entered the line around 7:30 and did not receive a number. I continued to wait in line until it started and proceed to walk in with the rest of the line only to find out that when I got to the front they had opened the gate after the last number and people were just walking in without waiting. So note to self and others…if you don’t get a number do not continue to wait politely in line.